Yes, that's an Estoc. Dark Souls Mage. Dessert Recipes. Dark Souls. Deviantart. Dark. Base Foods. Types Of Food. Wholesome. Steamed Tofu. Organic Sugar. Mickey And Minnie Crocs. ... View an image titled 'Moon Female Concept Art' in our Dark Souls art gallery featuring official character designs, concept art, and promo pictures. ...Dark Souls Action role-playing game Role-playing video game Action game Gaming comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment. rockstar2012 • Additional comment actions. Your title says 3/2/1 but in the video the order is 1, 2, 3. ... It is truly infuriating and why I don't buy into all of this Estoc complaining. Ultra ...Dark Souls; Enchanted Estoc +5 any good? Plague_Rat5150 11 years ago #1. Picking the game back up after a while and need an alternative weapon for an Int build. Currently using a Enchanted Falchion +5 but am looking for something less likely to bounce off the environment in tight spaces. I remember the estoc didn't scale well pre-patch but how ...Dark Souls Remastered [Vid] SL10 Fire Estoc +0 Twink; Topic Archived; Product Deals. See All. Amazon. $16.95 new $14.72 used. GameStop. $24.99 used NewEgg. $26.99 new More Topics from this Board. Needing some drops. 1 post, 2/3 10:22PM. In retrospective, and having played the other Souls game, DS1 is very average. ...Using the Estoc is one of the most satisfying experiences in Dark Souls. Turning enemies into a pincushion from afar and watching them helplessly flail as they try and counter the player is a ...Estoc is starter for Assasin, I couldn't find it otherwise. It also doesnt seem to be as OP as it was in DKS2, was my go to weapon in that game. ... Related Dark Souls Action role-playing game Role-playing video game Action game Gaming forward back. r/darksouls3.A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. ... The Estoc has fast attacks and long reach, means that it makes good use of elemental buffs. However, resins increase damage for basically nothing, and can be used on any UN-infused weapon, meaning a quality build gets an AR boost just by ...Raw weapons (like fire and deep weapons) just raise the base damage but don't give you damage bonus depending on your stats anymore (the scaling). Other infusions change on which stats and how much damage bonus you get. Also, no need to buy a new estoc, you can re-infuse a weapon you infused.Great Scythe +15. Great Scythe is a Weapon in Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered. Weapon with a long curved blade. Converted from a wheat-harvesting tool. The magnificent sharp curved blade instills fear in opponents. Perhaps it is their survival instinct at work."Estoc is called bestoc for reason and it's unnerfed pokes are godlike but L1 becomes useless block. I am personally little more favored toward rapier because it has the poke and L2 parry to give me more options. ... Whereas /r/DarkSouls is a community around Dark Souls that is more discussion oriented in nature, /r/ShittyDarkSouls is about ...For Dark Souls II on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Espada Ropera vs. Estoc. Which is better?" - Page 2.SundownKid. •. The Estoc is fairly poor for PvE. All Rapiers are in this game, compared to DS2 where they are a menace. Balder Side Sword blows the entire Rapier weapon class out of the water by having a thrusting R2.One of the multipliers (in percent) for the bonus damage on criticals, such as backstabs and ripostes. Durability: The health of the weapon. The effectiveness of the weapon will severely deteriorate when the durability falls below 30%. Weight: The weight of the weapon.A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. Bastard sword is love, Bastard sword is life. As the title suggests, which weapon did you fall in love with and use throughout the entire game?Les Epées d'Estoc sont une catégorie d' arme dans Dark Souls III, qui ont des dégâts assez faibles par coup, mais donc la vitesse d'attaque et la portée compensent ces faibles dégâts. Par ailleurs, il est possible avec ces armes d'infliger des contres-attaques punitives.BurningLance 7 years ago #10. well if you go Quality then Refined is the best. since you plan to go Str for a while then Heavy is good. im doing a Dex/Luck and atm with 29 in both and Hollow infusion gives more dmg than the Sharp infusion (even if Sharp bumps dex scaling to B) which is very good for Estocs.Description. Criticals, also referred to as throws, are powerful attacks that can only be used under certain conditions. Using Critical damage to achieve overkill can benefit players early in the game, because of the extra souls gained. There are several ways to do critical damage: Backstab, Riposte, and a situational Plunging attack. Walk ...A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). ... and for whatever reason the estoc is hitting normally on some enemies but anything larger I hit for what's approximately a wet paper towel. I got a +5 estoc right now, 16 str and 12 dex and it says it should be doing 129.A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. Bastard sword is love, Bastard sword is life. As the title suggests, which weapon did you fall in love with and use throughout the entire game?The Estoc 1H R2 is quite simply the best move in the game. Not only does it pierce shields, but it is extremely fast, can combo into a normal stab, and even out-ranges spears/rapier pokes. Fighting greatswords is hilariously easy when you can just stand outside the range, and counter sweep between swings.DARK SOULS™ II: Scholar of the First Sin. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews ... estoc is a str weapon. not quite fitting for a dex user. Okay...so Rapier, great! Just wanna clarify one thing though, counter damage means damage when both, opponent and myself, get hit simultaneously but my hit will just ...A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. ... Estoc and Watcher's shield are about as top tier as it gets in the hands of a competent player. If you are not confident in baiting a parry, I usually deal with these people by either: hard swapping to a bandit axe and spamming guard break ...Boards. Dark Souls. Netted an extra Slab from my first Darkwraith: Ltng Estoc or Man-Serpent? popliyo 11 years ago #1. got quite lucky when beginning to farm for chunks and managed to get a slab from my first farmed darkwraith; my question here is for my strength build that uses primarily the DGA, should i use this extra slab to max my man ...Currently Playing: Reisudaku 10 years ago #2. For PvP I'd say Estoc since DPS won't matter unless you're R1 spamming begging to be parried. Supido 10 years ago #3. They both good in PVP. BSS deals more damage in normal attack. Estoc deals more damage in backstabs. Please forgive my bad English. eclipse_exe 10 years ago #4.Estoc - Darksouls3. Dark Souls III Wiki » Equipment » Weapons » Thrusting Swords » Estoc. Lore. Large thrusting sword used for piercing through the armor of knights. The …For pve I'd say the estoc definitely, the better range and the horizantal slash on the one handed R2 will help a lot. For pvp it depends, the rapier has higher critical damage but the estoc has higher base damage, making it a better choice for turtling. I'd recommend the rapier though, it's really light which makes it excellent as a secondary ...In PvP, not PvE, how do people not read the title. Estoc has low AR and almost no moveset, punishing rolls doesn't matter. procs bleed fast. If 10 hits is "fast". Anyway OP, the correct answer is "longsword." Better AR, better moveset. Estoc and Lothric are simply inferior.Its a heavily underrated weapon but with an incredibly monstrous range, also great for punishing and putting the pressure on, just careful with those backstabbers so mixing it with a sweep weapon or the force miracle is a must. EWGF 12 years ago #8. Ricard's Rapier is faster. Estoc has higher damage and greater length.The Estoc is actually fucking OP in DS3; it has the hitstun of an ultra greatsword if I remember correctly. About spacing, just try to bait them and throw a hit here and there. 2. Reply. LostForever88 • 3 yr. ago. Yeah, I'm better now, just needed more practice I guess, was getting wins 40% of the time, won 5 in a row just now. 1. Reply. Was ...Estoc has B scaling in Str at +10 solidly making it a Str weapon. If you want to do pure-physical damage then you want 40 str and 12ish dex. However, it also infuses pretty well. So it depends on if you want to go pure Str or only enough to use your weapons and infuse. 40 Str and 12 dex you are looking at 308 Physical.Does anyone know the best config for a estoc in PvP? Currently am 20/20 for strength and dex. I think I might put some levels towards faith later on but nothing too crazy.A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). ... You can get the estoc dex weapon downstairs at the beginning of the game. Personally, I went down the catacombs on a suicide run for the Great Scythe (very fun dex weapon with great damage but slower speed). After that I ...Historically, Espada Ropera (Dress Sword) was a sword developed in the mid-15th century in Spain. The name referred to swords worn by civilians, as opposed for those meant for battlefield use. Compared to earlier thrusting swords, the espada ropera was lighter, thinner, and more ornate. Youtube relevant videos: ( ( Links only please, no embeds ...Description. Criticals, also referred to as throws, are powerful attacks that can only be used under certain conditions. Using Critical damage to achieve overkill can benefit players early in the game, because of the extra souls gained. There are several ways to do critical damage: Backstab, Riposte, and a situational Plunging attack. Walk ... une attaque d'estoc-L'attaque de frappe. L'attaque la plus commune des masses est la frappe. Il s'agit d'un mouvement en diagonale plus ou moins prononcé. Tous les ennemis en armure sont très vulnérables à ce type d'attaque. Type de dégâts et vulnérabilité Il existe plusieurs types de dégâts dans Dark Souls 2, dont deux grands types : Estoc's range and moveset have always been unbalanced in a turtle's hands. Even in 3, where we are now, Havestoc Turtle remains at large. Thankfully I am not the kind of absolute cancerbaby to turtle with havels on and use Bestoc. Counter damage is much, much easier to interpret in Dark Souls 2, more than any other game. Is the enemy performing an attack animation during your hit? Yes: you get counter damage No: you get normal damage The timing window is absolutely absurd, especially on the fights with big, lumbering bosses. Estoc - Darksouls3. Dark Souls III Wiki » Equipment » Weapons » Thrusting Swords » Estoc. Lore. Large thrusting sword used for piercing through the armor of knights. The …DARK SOULS™ III. All Discussions ... He will SELL the estoc after you give him lorettas bone and exhaust his dialogue. Then you send him off to find more items, kill treebeard, or crsytal sage, (two earliest bosses to bring him back) and you can now buy the estoc and a slew of other new items. #12.Why I love using both Balder Side Sword and Estoc at the same time. The movesets are like the inverse of eachother: Estoc has poke R1 and sweep R2, Balder has sweep R1 and poke R2. Makes for some amazing versatility. There's also an element of unpredictability--they look almost identical aside from the guard.It's going to depend mostly on how which moveset you like best. Estoc has best range and highest base damage. Rapier is short, but has the best crit damage and is the lightest. Ricard's Rapier has better scaling in dark, chaos, and blessed infusions. Main hand- sharp/chaos/dark estoc. Off hand- sharp rapier for parries.Id say Estoc simply because it has a better moveset IMO. Ricards R2 is cool, but you can only use it against some slowmoving enemies. Estoc has a wicked R2 slash, and some nice long range pokes twohanded. The Rapier also has a nice lunging R2, and very few weapons can parry/backstab harder than a +15 Rapier. 4.It's no different to the people crying over dark magic in DS1. If you used that against a remotely skilled player you'd be backstabbed before you know what hit you. I'll also add that the Estoc is a starting weapon, alot of players simply play through the game without changing much.Rapier is a weapon in Dark Souls 2. A standard thrusting sword. Thrusting Swords are light swords with fine tips that can be used while holding up a shield, and are effective for parrying. Use quick thrusts to damage hard-skinned foes. Also effective when fighting in …A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. Members Online After 10 years I start my second attempt in Dark Souls 2.For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Estoc for Pure Int build".If you enjoyed the video then don't forget to give it a like!If you enjoyed the intro music then be sure to check out the band here! www.youtube.com/channel/...Estoc has my favourite strong attack in the game, is reasonably powerful, quite quick, is quite long, and has all the utility that the thrusting swords have. Balder side sword is probably slightly better, but I think the estoc is more fun and the blocking attack can really help in a bind. To me they're about even.r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 (dark sword amirite)Estoc is a Weapon in Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered. The largest of the thrusting swords. Can pierce an armored knight in one thrust." "The blade is also sharp, allowing slicing as well." How to Get / Where to Find the Estoc. Corpse in the lower section of Firelink Shrine, along the path towards New Londo Ruins. Video Location Timestamp 1 ...BTW, a refined estoc already outdamages a strength estoc at 40/18 (turtle build). It was 309 AR vs ~324 (edit) AR as far as I remember. i think the damage fluctuates when get a normal counter was %40 in dks1 and high damage is when you get a leo counter ( end of there swing) was %30 for a totle of %70 to %80.In-Game Description. The largest of the thrusting swords. Can pierce an armored knight in one thrust. The blade is also sharp, allowing slicing as well. Availability. Treasure from a …It just seems their are so few thrusting weapons this time around that I wanted to make sure that the Estoc would be a safe choice. #2. Tanktyr Apr 5, 2016 @ 11:39am. Quite a few have a poke as r2 attack at least tho. #3. …Longsword +15. *When infused with Magic: 150 Physical dmg/162 Magic dmg; with Fire: 192 Physical dmg/192 Fire dmg; with Lightning: 200 Physical dmg/200 Lightning dmg. Longsword is a Weapon in Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered. Widely-used standard straight sword, only matched in ubiquity by the shortsword."For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Weapon Poll: Claymore Vs Estoc".The extra range on Estoc can be really nice for spacing compared to Rapier. Also, the Estoc I believe has shield splitter, great for damaging through the shield of your opponent. The crits wont be as good, but I think thats okay, you dont go either of these weapons specifically for crit playstyle. 6. Reply.Durability is a gameplay mechanic in Dark Souls. Durability is a point system that keeps track of a weapon or piece of armor's condition. Some items are fragile and have a low maximum durability reaching into the low tens, while some may be incredibly resilient, going as high as 999. In this system there are three levels of durability, each of which affects the performance of the weapon ...In the main the Longsword is prized for speed and moveset while the Estoc's primary strength over other thrusting swords is that it has attacks that are not thrust. One of the great strengths of the game is that there's a use case for almost everything. So neither is a great choice against Old Knights. A Rapier is likely to be a better boss ...It's due to the fact that elemental damage is affected by counter-damage. That means also buffs profit from counters. Hello, Playing Dark Souls II SoTFS with an estoc (favorite in all souls games) i noticed that it completes lacks in physical damage. I've got 50 str and i upgraded it to +10, yet the damage is seriously low.Originally posted by Trash Boat: I think rapier has higher dex scaling if I remember right, making it better for dex obviously. Estoc is a bit better of an option for 40/40's and str builds. I know estoc is extra stupid with the crystal buff, idk what infuse those mage types put on it though. yea i might do that then, i mainly am using soceries.Just wanted to say it cause I got invaded by someone and died in three hits that I couldn't roll out of.For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Weapon Poll: Claymore Vs Estoc".That being said if it's your main I'd say Estoc as it has a better r2 ... Related Dark Souls Action role-playing game Role-playing video game Action game Gaming forward back. r/LiesOfP. r/LiesOfP. A Soulslike action RPG based on the classic story of Pinocchio's Adventures in Wonderland. Guide Pinocchio through the city of Krat to find Mr. Geppetto.The Estoc is a thrusting sword in Dark Souls II. Sold by Blacksmith Lenigrast for 1,500 souls. The Estoc features thrust attacks with moderate range and slashes to the side that bypass shields. It has a fair base damage and moderate scaling, and has better range than the Rapier. As with most thrusting swords, the Estoc can be used from behind the shield. The Estoc synergizes well with the ...PreparetoSigh 7 years ago #2. I think Estoc is best in 1v1 PvP really. It makes a decent off hand weapon as well, since you can pull out a quick poke. But for PvE straight swords are a better choice. Augustus_XII 7 years ago #3. yes, pair it with a greatshield. you'll f*** PVE enemies up, and you'll annoy the s*** out of people in PVP. The only Estoc that is D/D is the one in Dark Souls 3, and that's only when it is completely unupgraded. One upgrade level changes it to D/C. The Estoc in DS2 starts at C/D and ends at +10 as B/D. Estoc is a Weapon in Dark Souls 3. Large thrusting sword used for piercing through the armor of enemies. The sharp edge of the sword's rock-solid blade can also be used in …But yeah, the Estoc is a good weapon at this point for your PvE adventures because it doesn't have a huge requirement to wield. However, if you start increasing your damage stats you will find that there are plenty of other weapons the are useful as well, and a lot that do better damage. ... Related Dark Souls Action role-playing game Role ...There's a reason bcs r1 spamming becomes less effective. UGS have a significantly better hit per attack damage. 4 UGS hits versus 10-12 Estoc hits to kill a 25 vig character. The Estoc is at an inherent damage disadvantage which adequately offsets the moveset advantage. I'm not saying I'm right and youre wrong.Dark Souls III. Estoc for PvE. Squaresoft111 7 years ago #1. Don't really plan on playing PvP at all so this is entirely focused on a PvE build. I'm currently using a Raw Dark Sword (Knight). Really not a fan of using this weapon so I kinda wanted to run around with an Estoc. What should I be aiming for in terms of gem infusion/stat build? Boards.Ricard's has the quick multi-thrust WA, which is excellent with bleed or powerful weapon buff builds, stacks up damage really quick. Melts bosses, really hard to hit in pvp though. In your case, Estoc has good base AR, while Ricard's has low base AR. That makes Estoc a good choice for raw builds, and Ricard's not so good, unless all you want is ...Estoc/Dark Sword thread #143913. If you complain about Estoc spammers, you are bad. It's a thrusting sword with little range. Git over it. Git gud.The Estoc is basically a Str based Rapier. With the Ring of Blades and Old Leo Ring, it's unstoppable. That’s a good setup for a strength build. The craftsman hammer is a better version of the mace IMO, but you can’t do better than the estoc for a fast strength weapon with pierce damage. Both. Admittedly I only have around 200 hours in ds1 since I was more interested in playing the other editions of the game, which means my knowledge is a little limited. For this playthrough I decided to run a Dex/Int build. Specifically: Vit: 40 Atn: 16 End: 21 Str: 16 Dex: 45 Res: 12 Int: 50 Fth: 8. My plan is to predominantly use the Moonlight ... BurningLance 7 years ago #10. well if you go Quality then Refined is the best. since you plan to go Str for a while then Heavy is good. im doing a Dex/Luck and atm with 29 in both and Hollow infusion gives more dmg than the Sharp infusion (even if Sharp bumps dex scaling to B) which is very good for Estocs.Apr 28, 2016 · There is no need to lower yourself to using an estoc. There are plenty of cool and useful weapons. #1. TrueArchery Apr 28, 2016 @ 8:10am. Yep, Poison. Eventually it'll trigger after enough R1s. #2. gackie Apr 28, 2016 @ 8:14am. Originally posted by TrueArchery: Estoc is a Weapon in Dark Souls 3. Large thrusting sword used for piercing through the armor of enemies. The sharp edge of the sword's rock-solid blade can also be used in …Estoc I Love You Hoooo boy, after being part of the big boi greatsword crew for the whole DS trilogy, I decided to play things differently after starting SOTFS on PS4. Damn, the Estoc is fun pokey nonsense.It's due to the fact that elemental damage is affected by counter-damage. That means also buffs profit from counters. Hello, Playing Dark Souls II SoTFS with an estoc (favorite in all souls games) i noticed that it completes lacks in physical damage. I've got 50 str and i upgraded it to +10, yet the damage is seriously low.Estoc is a Weapon in Dark Souls 3. Large thrusting sword used for piercing through the armor of enemies. The sharp edge of the sword's rock-solid blade can also be used in slashing attacks. Skill: Lock onto your target and hit them in a large forward lunge to pierce through enemy shields and inflict staggering damage.Hey Reddit! So I'm currently planning on using an estoc + shield to do a good old turtle poke way of fighting, and basically I was wondering what shields would be good for a build as such, and also if there are other weapon alternatives that I perhaps should look into. The main thing you want to focus on for this type of playstyle is the shield.Estoc has low-ish damage and the ability to attack when blocking is pretty useless. Reply reply More posts you may like r/darksouls. r/darksouls. A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360/One, and Switch (Remastered). ... A community dedicated to Dark Souls I, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 ...A community dedicated to Dark Souls 2, game released for PC, PlayStation 3 and 4, Xbox 360 and One. ... Power stance Estoc & Mace? I know its an odd combination, but I can do rapier/mace, estoc/heide knight sword and mace/heide knight sword. I have the 1.5X requirements for both weapons and the wiki doesn't say I can't. Yet I can't seem to do ...
BSS. Ah yes: "The dirty savage's Estoc". TC: The Estoc is one of the best weapons for a Dex-based build: 1. It gets a nice counter bonus, and is brilliant paired with a Leo Ring. 2. It's not the Rapier, but it still gets a nice (hidden) bonus to BS and Riposte. 3.. Elements salon fairbanks
Partizan +15. Partizan is a Weapon in Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered. Spear with blade attached to a broad point. Boasts long reach, can slice." "The wide range of this spear makes it adaptable to many situations. Its strength lies in its length, but in cramped quarters, this backfires, and slices ricochet off walls."For Dark Souls on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Why does the estoc have a slashing attack?" - Page 2.Dark Souls rewards you for being willing to use the correct tool for the job, be that miracles, spells, pyro, or an Estoc with a Bandit Shield. Yeah, I'm doing this DEX run because I usually play with the same weapons (Halberd, Claymore) and builds (mage, pyro, faith).Estoc is called bestoc for reason and it's unnerfed pokes are godlike but L1 becomes useless block. I am personally little more favored toward rapier because it has the poke and L2 parry to give me more options. ... Whereas /r/DarkSouls is a community around Dark Souls that is more discussion oriented in nature, /r/ShittyDarkSouls is about ...Description. Criticals, also referred to as throws, are powerful attacks that can only be used under certain conditions. Using Critical damage to achieve overkill can benefit players early in the game, because of the extra souls gained. There are several ways to do critical damage: Backstab, Riposte, and a situational Plunging attack. Walk ... The Estoc is basically a Str based Rapier. With the Ring of Blades and Old Leo Ring, it's unstoppable. That’s a good setup for a strength build. The craftsman hammer is a better version of the mace IMO, but you can’t do better than the estoc for a fast strength weapon with pierce damage. Both. r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 (dark sword amirite)If it's not obvious from that, Thrust is spears, estoc, rapier and such. Slash is most swords, daggers curved swords ultra greatswords etc. And Strike is blunt weapons. Scaled and plated armor always have higher resistances against slash damage than other (physical) resistances as compared to other armors.It just seems their are so few thrusting weapons this time around that I wanted to make sure that the Estoc would be a safe choice. #2. Tanktyr Apr 5, 2016 @ 11:39am. Quite a few have a poke as r2 attack at least tho. #3. Toxophilite [East] Apr 5, 2016 @ 11:43am.About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright ...Not sure why you'd want a longsword over a lothric knight sword - the crystal LKS gets nearly identical AR to the crystal longsword, but with much stronger backstabs/ripostes. For simple vs crystal, you consistently get 20-45 less AR out of simple, so you'll want one of the weapons with only ~20 less AR between infusions if you can find one. 1.Hi, so I never really used or liked the Estoc, but it seems like the new meta, so I thought I'd be a kool kid and start using it, what's the best infusion for it? Should I infuse it at all?Dark Souls 3 may be a tough game, but these weapons will make things a little easier on you. ... The Estoc is an assassin class weapon that is automatically given to players choosing the Assassin ...Kishore Kumar, a name that needs no introduction in the world of Indian music, is celebrated as one of the greatest playback singers of all time. His soulful voice and impeccable s...Estoc I Love You Hoooo boy, after being part of the big boi greatsword crew for the whole DS trilogy, I decided to play things differently after starting SOTFS on PS4. Damn, the Estoc is fun pokey nonsense..
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